I’m Wondering If I Might Sit and Listen To You For a While…?

Last week, as I was driving from Georgetown, Texas to the Dallas/Ft. Worth airport, I noted that I would drive through Waco.  As many know, Waco is now associated with the terrible events of 1993 when the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms served a warrant on the Branch Davidian compound and to David Koresh, their leader.  After the initial warrant, a gun battle ensued and several ATF officers, as well as Branch Davidian members were killed.  A siege ensued and fifty days later ended with the death of seventy-six people on the compound, including many women and children in a fire.  David Koresh, the leader of the Branch Davidians was also killed in the siege.  More information can be found on this incident at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/.

As I neared Waco, I called my office and they gave me the only address they could find associated with the compound.  As I entered it into my GPS, I thought, “Oy! What am I thinking?”  But, nonetheless, I figured just taking a peek at what used to be the compound would be interesting.  As I proceeded down Double EE Road, out in the middle of nowhere, I was a tad uncomfortable.  There were some houses around, so I wasn’t completely isolated.  After about a mile of driving I saw a woman walking her dogs.  I stopped and rolled down the window and said, “Hi…my name is Karen and I am looking for the old Branch Davidian compound.”  She pointed behind my car and said, “There it is.”  I said, “Oh, people still live there?”  “Yes, they do.” “Do you live there?”  “Yes, I do.”  My opportunity had come.  I proceeded to explain who I am, what I am doing in school, and asked if she would be willing to chat with me.  “Yes, I would.”

I turned my car around and as she walked through the gate and down the dirt road leading to the church, I thought, “WHAT am I doing??”  But this opportunity had arrived and I wasn’t going to pass it up.  I will be honest and say that I did text a few people telling them where I was and what I was doing…just in case.

I spent the next hour learning a bit about the history of the Branch Davidians while sitting in the sanctuary with a woman whom I will call M.  I took away a lot, but this is the gist:  There are ten members at the compound right now with some children.  They support themselves through two wealthy members who fund the church and the members, including food, medical care, etc.  They believe that Jesus was not born alone, but that he had a feminine counterpart—just as Adam and Eve were created, God would not only create a son—the Holy Spirit is female.  M said David Koresh was wrong in his claim to be God.  However, he was fulfilling prophecy and his part in bringing the Kingdom of God to earth.  The US government is man’s government.  The Branch Davidian’s hope, instead, is to have God’s rule on earth.  And, they are preparing themselves for the next phase of bringing God’s Kingdom to earth, as they have two new Prophets among them who are there to fulfill the prophecy.  They are “getting ready.”

In my conversation with M, I mentioned that David Koresh was a religious extremist.  My understanding of a religious extremist stems from my work on Al Qaeda and other religious movements that take scripture literally and misinterpret the sacred texts.  If one was to take this simple definition and apply it to what M told me, the Branch Davidian sect is considered an extremist group.  I think it is also important to define extremism verses fundamentalism.  A fundamentalist and an extremist both take scripture out of context, utilizing it mostly for political gain and they use scripture to justify their actions.  An extremist, however, takes it one step further and uses violence as a form of power as well.  The Branch Davidians are defined, in general terms, as a religious cult as well.  When I asked M what she thought about being labeled a “cult,” she said, “A cult is defined by a group that follows a leader.  Doesn’t that make all of us who are religious part of a cult?”  According to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult, she is right.  The definitions there are somewhat ambiguous, but clear—“a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.; a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.”  It seems that any of us who are religious, are, according to these definitions, part of a “cult.”

I left this conversation with M understanding how anyone who is lost, seeking something, or wanting to feel that they need to belong to something that feels important and relevant; needs someplace to live; has bad feelings about the religions they were brought up in, and so much more—would want to join a religious sect such as the Branch Davidians.   I also left this conversation with M somewhat afraid of what she meant by the fact that they are “getting ready.”  These words can be misconstrued, creating angst, and more, could lead to more incidents of violence and destruction.

However, being the geek who is enthralled about how religion can so easily take different twists and turns, I also left fascinated.  I never imagined that I would wake up Friday morning and spend an hour with what most people would call a religious extremist group, or a religious cult, or fanatics, or “Wacos.”  For me, the experience was about listening and trying (with great difficulty if I can be honest), to not pass judgment.  To really hear what M told me, what she believes and how her faith forms her, without it scaring me, or confusing me, or making me want to run, fast, out the door, never looking back, was the biggest challenge.

Are the Branch Davidians a cult or religious extremists?  That, I cannot answer.  What I can say is that I sat with a fellow human being and fellow Christian on Friday; we conversed; I learned; I listened; I heard; I connected.  I left with a lot of questions, but that is what makes the understanding of religion on a human level so interesting.  I am thinking of going back to the compound and immersing myself for a few days, just to really get a sense of what they believe and why.  I think it could greatly contribute to my upcoming thesis.

In the meantime, if you have the chance and you want to learn, push yourself, move beyond the barriers you set for yourself, be confused, and out of your realm, just approach someone very different from you, with a different religious belief, or from a different culture and say, “I’m wondering if I might sit and listen to you for a while?”  You never know what you will walk away with…

7 thoughts on “I’m Wondering If I Might Sit and Listen To You For a While…?”

  1. Wow, Karen! Best wishes to you, and stay on your toes. I’m going to post on something probably in a few weeks on the book “Tea with Hezbollah” by Carl Medearis and Ted Dekker, which takes up a similar theme to what you write about here. Sincerely, Ben

    1. Thanks, Ben! Looking forward to reading your post!
      All the best,
      Karen

  2. Karen, doesn’t this sentence:

    “I left this conversation with M understanding how anyone who is lost, seeking something, or wanting to feel that they need to belong to something that feels important and relevant; needs someplace to live; has bad feelings about the religions they were brought up in…”

    describe a fairly large set of people in our society (I hesitate to extend this to the general human condition at some point or another in their lives) on any given day?

    1. Thanks for your comment, Garfield. I completely agree with you. I was very general in what I wrote, on purpose. And, in fact, my generalization made you question what I wrote because you thought about it…which is exactly what I wanted. I have studied only a little of the psychological aspect of why people join cults or become religious extremists. My work on Al Qaeda has led me to understand how these groups play on the social issues that plague many people in many places. Many people in our world are vulnerable, and more, they are seeking a sense of belonging to something they deem important. I could have touched upon indoctrination, etc., but honestly, I didn’t want to slant my piece. I just wanted to put it out there, and have people think about it. So, I really appreciate your comment because you are right, we are all seeking, we are all lost at times, etc., but, it is what we do with those feelings and how we act on them, and how we put God into the mix, that makes the all the difference.

      Thanks again and be well,
      Karen

      1. It is cold and streets are icy in Edmonton, Canada and it was nice to stay inside and sit and listen to you for a while.

        As part of the Imago International Peace Project we embrace the spirit of PreValidation that I heard in your story i.e. the assumption that everyone makes sense, even before they speak, and that if it appears otherwise we probably don’t have enough information. The honoring way you listened to M is a great example.

        1. Thank you, Neil! I like the idea of embracing the spirit of PreValidation. Imagine if we all did this in every conversation or experience we entered. I think our world would be much different. Thanks again, and stay warm. 🙂

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